Hand from a recent PVT member Sng

Does this hand sound about right, or did I play it too weak?

2 people knocked out, everybody playing pretty solid poker in position and out of position.

I had both large stacks to my right and small stacks to my left.

Everybody's VP was under 20 and PFR was under 15 so it was a solid strong game vs good playing members.

Did I simply get outplayed in the following hand? Or is it pretty obvious he has the flop hit real hard?


Full Tilt Poker Game #17942772133: PokerVT (133983758), Table 1 - 40/80 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:20:49 ET - 2010/01/26
Seat 2: dafalenangel (6,125)
Seat 4: strnr004 (2,705)
Seat 5: dwvw (2,100)
Seat 6: Cratos8 (2,435)
Seat 7: Spadezaspade (5,525)
Seat 9: Aczey (5,110)
Cratos8 posts the small blind of 40
Spadezaspade posts the big blind of 80

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 40/80 Blinds (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (MP) (t6125)
CO (t2705)
Button (t2100)
SB (t2435)
BB (t5525)
UTG (t5110)

Hero's M: 51.04

Preflop: Hero is MP with A, A
1 fold, Hero bets t205, 3 folds, BB calls t125

Flop: (t450) Q, 4, Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t305, BB raises to t610, Hero raises to t915, BB calls t305

Turn: (t2280) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t1120, BB raises to t4405 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: t4520

dafalenangel folds
Uncalled bet of 3,285 returned to Spadezaspade
Spadezaspade mucks
Spadezaspade wins the pot (4,520)

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4,520 | Rake 0
Board: [Qd 4s Qc 5h]
Seat 2: dafalenangel folded on the Turn
Seat 4: strnr004 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: dwvw (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Cratos8 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: Spadezaspade (big blind) collected (4,520), mucked
Seat 9: Aczey didn't bet (folded)

Did I simply get outplayed in the following hand? Or is it pretty obvious he has the flop hit real hard?

I mean if I was in his position and I hit the Q for trips on the flop I would have played it the same way he did.

If I check behind on the turn to see a free river and maybe hit the A then fine, but if I check and miss and he bets huge or all in on the river I almost have to call if I check behind on the turn as if to say "I have nothing, PLEASE STEAL the pot from me!"

He also could have had 44's or 55's with the way he played it.

In hindsight he could also of had JJ or KK or AA but I don't think he raises my turn bet with those hands unless he is absolutely thinking on a super mega game level and simply knows I would have to fold without a Q.

A few replies I got about the hand are this: from sJacob (PVT member)

Sup with flop minraises? This is a pretty weird hand from both of you.

I obv don't know anything about this opponent, but on average I'd expect a c/c if he has a Q, mid pocket pair or a 4. Minraise looks bluffy to me, I'd call it and reevalute, probably call at least one more street. When you 3bet, you can't expect him to call you with a worse hand (although when you min 3bet I guess he can call you with worse). Good thing about flatting is that it will let him fire more bluffs if he is indeed bluffing.

falenangel wrote:

"If I check behind on the turn to see a free river and maybe hit the A then fine, but if I check and miss and he bets huge or all in on the river I almost have to call if I check behind on the turn as if to say "I have nothing, PLEASE STEAL the pot from me!""

But you don't have nothing, you have a decent hand; you want him to try to steal the pot with worse hands.

As played I'd be tempted to call, because he's really not repping that much, it's tough to put him on a reasonable hand... maybe 55 exactly.

And this: from Alternativ (PVT member)

It would be really hard for him to play the hand this way with anything worse. You know how often he is defending his blind? Some PVT members have picked up blind defending from DN and will defend way to wide for their skill level.

I disagree with sJacob on the c/c with a Q, I think a random opponent would c/r most of the time with a Q here.

And your min 3bet on the flop is really wierd, I would never do that. You bet 305 into a 1975 pot. And you build the pot. if you flat, check behind the turn (if he do check), the pot will be 1625 on the river, he is a PokerVT member right? So I don't expect him to overbet, so you can catch a lot ore bluffs in this situation, because he will be bluffing here way more often then he would the way the hand played out. And you can call a lot cheaper. Since you both are so deep I don't think pot control is to bad an idea.

If you flat and he keep firing, you could think of letting your hand go imo.

sJacob wrote:

"As played I'd be tempted to call, because he's really not repping that much, it's tough to put him on a reasonable hand... maybe 55 exactly."

You really think he is bluffing here often enough to make this a call? I really agree with falenangel, a lot of people would play their Q like this. And falenangel has played solid as well, and 3bet flop (even tho it was a tiny 3bet that woulden't make him fold to many hands), and fired again on the turn. This would be a really hard spot for him to bluff. I just don't think he is bluffing often enough here. People bluff way less then you would think.

And this: from puyan (PVT member)

Flat the flop raise and see what he does on the turn. Try and small ball it to showdown. Why go nuts against the big stack when your almost guaranteed money spot? Sort out your reraise sizing too, they should be at least 2.5-3x the previous bet. Min reraises don't work because your not really getting the information you need since the sizing is so small they're never folding to those odds.


My ending thoughts... for now on the hand are:

After thinking it through after the fact I think that I have to agree in hindsight I should have flatted the flop raise and see how much he leads for on the turn. I could maybe have called to river for the same amount that I 3bet and bet on the turn.

The same player also bet huge pot on river in other hands so I guess I was thinking he might shove the river if we got to it and I wanted as much information as possible.

I am really looking forward to the possibility of this tournament being put together by Dixie with all the HH's so I can see what the player had.

Yet I still firmly think he had my AA beat with the line he took even if my line seemed awkward and weak.

Cheers and Shambone

The fun part is, since it was on Full Tilt I am not familiar with the PVT screen name for Spadezaspade and am not sure who it was, but later in the tournament he said that he did have the Q back in the hand posted above.